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Hei Sølvi Jeg tror jeg ville ha gått for Elin sitt forslag her!

Jeg har sendt en forespørsel til Metodistkirken i Horten, så får jeg se om de svarer.

27de Iunj Mvh

Jeg ser av folketellingen 1870 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/53317/188 at Johan og Jacobea Hansen har en fosterdatter Inga Becker, f. 1861 i Horten og at kona Jacobea er født 1819 på Kongsberg. Jacobea Arnesdatter Becker f. 28/2-1819, døpt 18/12-1819 på Kongsberg. Hennes bror Arne Arnesen Becker 1825-1901, skipper, skipseier og bonde i Horten, blir i 1854 gift i Borre med Helle Karine Bang. Arne Becker har fått en gate oppkalt etter seg i Horten, Arne Beckersgate. De får bl.a. datteren Inga Jacobine Andrea Becker f. 10/11-1861 i Horten. Hun må være den fosterdatteren som i 1870 bor hos sin fars søster i Sarpsborg. I folketellingen 1865 bor Jacobea Becker, 47 år, ugift, f. på Kongsberg, i Ollebakgaden i Horten og driver en "Modehandel". De må altså ha giftet seg mellom 1865 og 1870, da sannsynligvis i metodistkirken i Horten. Muligens kan man ta kontakt med dem direkte for å undersøke om dette er riktig mann, som allered 1872 reiser til Queensland og er skilt før 1875.

Hello! I am very sorry that I do not speak Norwegian - I will post in english first but include a google translation that will hopefully be accurate 🙂 Can anyone tell me how to find the exact locations for the old farms, and is it possible to find plats for the bnr on the farms? My husband and I are planning a trip to Norway and we'd love to see the farms where his family came from in Askoy, Mostraum and Nottveit in Hordaland - any help at all would be greatly appreciated! Jeg beklager veldig at jeg ikke snakker norsk - jeg vil legge ut på engelsk først, men inkluderer en google-oversettelse som forhåpentligvis vil være nøyaktig 🙂 Kan noen fortelle meg hvordan jeg finner de eksakte plasseringene til de gamle gårdene, og er det mulig å finne plass til bnr på gårdene? Min mann og jeg planlegger en tur til Norge og vi vil gjerne se gårdene hans familie kom fra i Askøy, Mostraum og Nottveit i Hordaland - all hjelp i det hele tatt ville blitt satt stor pris på! Thank you/Takk skal du ha, Lisa Cahill

@Bjørn A Løkken Han het ikke Benjamin, men Benoni; Dåp - https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/3492553:60722 Konfirmasjon - https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/2078042:60722 WW 1 - https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/18352479:6482 WW 2 - https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/10952839:1002

@Bjørn A Løkken Her er skannet pass. liste for Oneida - https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/7488/images/NYM237_74-0102?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=f8d82bc240f07d1c50b81ac5090097ef&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Nim13&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=1023345133

@Bjørn A Løkken Ja, det virker unektelig litt rart..... Jeg ser at FindNyPast opererer med det samme som MH - https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=US%2FMCV%2F640414%2F15057664407667528720 First name(s) S. Last name Grunert Full name S. GRUNERT Sex Male Age 23 Birth country Germany Occupation Farmer Year 1848 Immigration date 14 Jul 1848 Ship name Oneida Passage Unknown Paid by Self Going to individual in the US? Unknown In the US before? Unknown Plan Unknown Literacy Unknown Residence - City of residence U State of residence UNKNOWN Place UNITED STATES County New York State New York Country United States Record set New York, New York, Castle Garden Immigration Index, 1820-1913 Category Travel & migration Subcategory Passenger Lists Collections from Americas, United States Kan det være at han ankom med et annet skip og at det således har blitt en sammenblanding? Jeg sjekket de andre transkriberte passasjerlistene med samme ankomstdato i NY, men kunne ikke finne ham - https://immigrantships.net/v8/arrivalsv8/nycv8.html

Fresvik Sogelag gav ut boka Historiske glimt frå Fresvik II i 2019. Her er det mykje informasjon om denne familien. Ved skriving av denne artikkelen vart det grave fram ein del som ikkje var kjent frå før. Mellom anna om etterkomarane etter Anna og Mons som begge budde i Bergen. Det er også truleg ei bok på trappene om den uekte dottera til Mons, Marie Petronelle og slekta hennar. Boka er skriven av Tarald Seldal. Faren til Ingeborg var Ole Gjertson Leiknes frå Leknessund i Askvoll. Han var døypt der i 1767. Han gifte seg i 1799 med Anna Nagel Monsdtr. Ramsøy. Ho var fødd i Aurland i 1771. Anna døydde hjå broren Mons på Osland i Kyrkjebø i 1841.

Da klarer jeg ikke forstå hvor MH https://www.myheritage.no/research/collection-20177/new-york-castle-garden-imigranter?itemId=6214242-&action=showRecord&recordTitle=S.+Grunert har dette fra Navn S. Grunert Kjønn Mann Født Ca. 1825 Germany Alder 23 Yrke Farmer Avreise Liverpool, England Ankomst 14. juli 1848 New York, United States Skip Oneida Destinasjon United States

Om det ikke har vært nevnt tidligere, så kan jeg opplyse om at det er laget en episode om denne saken i podcasten med det klingende navnet Henrettelsespodden. Link til episoden: https://podcasts.apple.com/no/podcast/henrettelsespodden/id1552196451?i=1000546264645 Forøvrig en ganske fornøyelig podcast, selv om bakteppet er litt makabert.

Takk for tyde-innspill!

Synest eg skimtar ein d på slutten, altså: Fødested Botne

Anna Maria Cicilia Holzmann: Fra Ancestry.com og slektstrær: Anna Maria Caecilia HOLZMANN found in 4 trees Anna Maria Caecilia HOLZMANN from tree Hamburg Dansk Record information. Birth 28 Jul 1800 Othmarschen, Hamburg, Hamburg, Germany No publicly available family members 1683 People0 Records0 Sources Contact Tree Owner Anna Maria Holzmann from tree Müller-Beckers Record information. Birth 1800 Death 1911 Altona, Hamburg, Hamburg, Germany Record information. Spouse Joachim Christian Porath (1800-1911) 23275 People0 Records0 Sources Anna Marie Caecilia HOLZMANN from tree Hamburg Dansk Record information. Birth 1795 Othmarschen, Hamburg, Hamburg, Germany No publicly available family members 1683 People0 Records0 Sources Contact Tree Owner Anna Maria Holzmann from tree Wibker-Schuppe-Rasch-Dill-Henning-Zimmer-Schöneich-Grotevendt-Scholas-Dierich Record information. Birth 1800 Death 1911 Altona, Hamburg, Hamburg, Germany No publicly available family members 11418 People0 Records0 Sources Hvis du ønsker så kan jeg kontakte eier av slektstreet "Hamburg Dansk" - er muligens en etterkommer i Danmark så du slipper å kommunisere på tysk om du ikke kjent med språket? - men jeg tar det på uansett på tysk også ved evt kontakt. Othmarschen er i dag en velstående bydel nede ved Elben's bredd i Altona, Hamburg- West. Urgrossvater (oldefar) Joachim Christian Porath er nevnt, i ditt dokument, som Mehlhändler (melforhandler, kjøpmann) Muligens er Pinneberg den menigheten (Kirschspiele) der kirkebøkene skal finnes for Othmarschen rundt 1800? - lite tid til dette, men bare et tips: https://ahnen-forscher.com/kirchenbuecher-hamburg/ Finner du rett menighet så har de kirkebøker der og kan slå opp for deg. Vielsen er vel det du først må finne for å verifisere ekteparet og dets foreldre. Endelig: endre tittel på ditt emne til f eks Porath/Holzmann, Hamburg ca 1840 - da vil flere (også utlendinger) finne ditt innlegg ved søk - det florerer av emner "slekt i Tyskland"....

eller han i Slaveri

litt i det uvisse: kan det vere "ford. Slave" ?

Well, I can't thank you enough, dear people in Norway, for your efforts...I am going to later have to try and summarise some stuff... The 1871 July edition of The Sailors Magazine (New York), page 196, writes that Captain Hansen, a Norwegian by birth, was converted in this country [namely USA - these things happen there!] and after having been licenced to preach, returned to Norway...in one of his letters he writes that he used Methodist congregations in Norway....it may explain why he is not on the roll of seafarers missionaries in Norway....his coming to Australia may be due to a marriage breakup, a sort of running sway....his calling himself a 'Lutheran minister' in Queensland, Australia, may indicate an evolving or maturing understanding, even though he continued a sort of 'revivalist' network......

Mange takk, Even. Hadde vel mistanke om at det ikkje var august 🙂

Very interesting indeed! I think you have hit the 'jackpot', 'johannpot', 'johnpot'...'Jackpot' is English idiom...

Her er iallefall passasjerlista til skipet Oneida med ankomst 14. juli 1848 - https://immigrantships.net/v8/1800v8/oneida18480714.html Ingen S Grunert ombord der såvidt jeg kan se - det er også oppgitt at alle passasjerene var fra Irland med unntak av 4 fra England!

There were large Methodist congregations in Sarpsborg, Halden, Konsgberg and Arendal. There are member lists that have been scanned, but I have not yet found either JHH or other relevant people. https://www.digitalarkivet.no/search/sources?s=metod*&from=1850&to=1880&format=all&archive_key= I haven't checked them all - and there are other dissenter lists as well.

excerpt from So your JHH worked in Sarpsborg, which is where Lars' JHH and his wife Jacobea & stepdaughter lived in the 1870 census, see above. And your JHH reported labor at Walloe and Tønsberg: Walloe must be Vallø (modern: Valløy), which is in Sem and which is where Lars' JHH's parents lived.

Saug og Saugstad er nabogarder. To store Saug-garder og to store Saugstad-garder

Enig. 🙂

Bøye Hansen died in 1871, heirs listed but no info on Johan Henrik Hansens occupation or whereabouts. Sem lensmannskontor, SAKO/A-547/H/Ha/L0003: Dødsfallsprotokoll, 1870-1889 Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk10101211297012 Helvig Hansen (mother) died i 1890, no heirs mentioned https://www.digitalarkivet.no/pg00000002434742 ... which means we have yet to ascertain whether Johan Henrik Hansen, son of Bøye and Helvig, is your Johan Henrik Hansen. (But it is a good candidate.)

Father Bøye/Bøje/Bøie Hansen, From Tønsbergs Blad, mandag 3. september 1917:

His bapism in 1828: Sem kirkebøker, SAKO/A-5/G/Ga/L0002: Klokkerbok nr. I 2, 1826-1844, s. 14-15 Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070425630174 His father Bøje Hansen was a school teacher at Jarlsberg school. His confirmation in 1842: Sem kirkebøker, SAKO/A-5/F/Fa/L0005: Ministerialbok nr. I 5, 1825-1842, s. 372-373 Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070425640119 Place of residence: "Skolen"

His wife's death record https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/27266/105 (1363)

It is noted in the '75 census that Jacobea was "f." -"fraskilt" - seperated, sorry: divorced .

His wife – Jacobea was a methodist: Census 1875: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/52055/6025 She died 16.08.1900 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/4142/67 "Widow of Methodist priest Johan Hansen"

Census 1870! This one is very interesting. He was born in Semb, the municipality next to Tønsberg. He is a sailor missionary. https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/53317/188

Norwegian emigrant protocol - 31.10.1872 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/43612/194 (no 68)

I have searched in seamen's rolls in Tønsberg, Holmestrand and Kristiania, with no luck, I am afraid. (I may have overlooked smth, of course.)

Hvis han var sjømann, bør det være mulig å finne navnet hans i sjømannsrullene? Tønsberg, Sandefjord, Horten, Kristiania ...? If he was a sailor, should it be possible to find his name in the seamen's rolls?

Please forgive me for writing in English, as this is easier for me, but I welcome answers in Norwegian if that is easier for you. Basic question: what evidence is there that the father of Heine Andersen Øyre (died ca. 1654) was Anders Matsen Ænes? Background: It is commonly asserted that Heine Andersen Øyre was the son of Anders Matsen Ænes (in turn the son of Mats Farteignsen of Losna-ætta) and Elsebe Mogensdatter (whose grandmother may have been a Benkestokk). See, for example, p. 97 of Odd Handegård's Vår felles slektshistorie or the following posted by Astrid Kaardal Halleraker last December (https://forum.arkivverket.no/topic/215283-opl-oppslag-bygdebok-gard-og-bygd-nord-aurdal-skrautvål-gården-aabol-1700-tallet/?do=findComment&comment=1830789) : That Elsebe Magnusdatter was Heine's mother has been subject to a lot of dispute. And that Anders Matsen Ænes was the son of Mats Farteignsen has been effectively refuted by Bjarne Hollund (https://forum.arkivverket.no/topic/215283-opl-oppslag-bygdebok-gard-og-bygd-nord-aurdal-skrautvål-gården-aabol-1700-tallet/?do=findComment&comment=1832153). But I have not seen anyone so far question that Heine Andersen Øyre was the son of Anders Matsen Æenes. But I am having difficulty finding any primary evidence for this connection. What I have found so far is: Heine/Heinne/Henie (without patronym) paid landskatt (as a leilending) and garnisonsskatt for Øre/Ørre/Øyre/Øyrie (located at the northern end of Maurangsfjord in Ænes sogn, Strandebarm skipreide, Sunnhordland - now gård nr. 55 in Kvinnherad) beginning in 1627/28. The last time he paid landskatt was in 1654; in 1655 landskatt for Ørre was paid by "Enchen" (i.e., his widow). In 1645 Heine of Ørre paid koppskatt for himself and wife Gyri (as well as three servants). In the 1646 skattemanntall Henne is listed as bruger at Ørre (which was owned by Axel Mowat and later became part of Rosendal Baroniet); he is not listed as owning any other property, and I have not found him paying odelsskatt at any time. The only reference to him I have found in the Tingbøker is from 25 May 1654, when "Heyne øre" explained that his "suoger" (in this context, his father-in-law) Siffuer Olleson (Øyrhavn) was too old and weak to appear in court. In a version of this proceedings read out at Ting on 10 and 11 October 1729, it was "Heine Anderson paa Øvre" who explained that his "werfader" "Sifver Olson paa Øvre" was too old and weak. Heine's wife Gyri Siffuersdatter had her probate on 15 April 1669; the probate does not mention the name of her predeceased husband. The only real estate mentioned in her probate are part-ownership of timber rights (saug) in both Øyre and Øyrhavn; there is no mention of any jordegods. Her three sons were Anders, Mats, and Godskalk Heinesønner (Godskalk is named after her maternal grandfather). Thus, there seems to be only one source (the 1729 version of the 1654 proceedings) that gives a patronym for Heine, and the only possible suggestion that Heine's father might have been an Anders Matsen is that Heine had a son Mats in addition to a son Anders. I see no evidence here that Heine's father was Anders Matsen Ænes. But then again, I'm just an amateur from America with limited access to the relevant secondary literature. So, what am I missing? Thank you for any help you might give! References to primary sources: media.digitalarkivet.no/view/76842/203 (Garnisonsskatt 1627-1628 - right side, 4th entry from bottom) media.digitalarkivet.no/view/76840/219 (Landskatt 1627-1628 - left side, 2nd column, 16th name) media.digitalarkivet.no/view/76844/261 (Landskatt 1628 - left side, 3rd name) media.digitalarkivet.no/view/76845/213 (Landskatt 1628-1629 - right side, last entry) media.digitalarkivet.no/view/76846/52 (Garnisonsskatt 1628-1629 - right side, 2nd entry from bottom) media.digitalarkivet.no/view/76897/367 (Koppskatt 1645-1646 - right side, last column, 6th farm) media.digitalarkivet.no/view/76900/41 (Kontribusjon 1646 - left side, 2nd farm) media.digitalarkivet.no/view/76920/267 (Kontribusjon 1653 - left side, 2nd farm) media.digitalarkivet.no/view/76923/168 (Kontribusjon 1654 - right side, 2nd farm) media.digitalarkivet.no/view/76926/236 (Kontribusjon 1655 - right side, 2nd farm) http://gda.arkivverket.no/da/SHL4TGB.htm (1654 Tingbok - s. 6b) http://gda.arkivverket.no/da/tb12001729sh.htm (1729 Tingbok - s. 160a) media.digitalarkivet.no/view/24017/86 (widow's probate)

Hei Bjarne: Thank you again for your many great insights. I agree that Mads Heineson's ownership of 1/2 løp smør and 1/2 hud in Boland in 1675 (documented in Sunnhordland Tingbok nr. 16a, fol. 33), the same as Anders Ænes's ownership in 1646, is strong evidence that Mads was related to Anders. But is it possible that Anders was Mads's father-in-law rather than grandfather? The reason I ask is because there are internet genealogies out there that state that Mads Heineson was married to a daughter of Anders Ænes, possibly named Anna (and I presume that church-law at this time would have prohibited Mads from being both son-in-law and grandson, which would require being married to his aunt). This would also make sense of the property distribution. From what I can tell from the 1646 skattemanntall, Anders Ænes owned a total of 2 løp smør and 2 hud (in Boland and in Lille Omvik), so the portion Mads Heineson got is one-quarter of that. If the children of Anders Madsson were Jan/Johan Andersson Ænes and Kristine Andersdatter Våge (who I agree are securely documented children of Anders Ænes) plus a daughter married to Mads Heineson, then the sister's part going to Mads's wife would have been one-quarter. But if Mads got the inheritance through his father Heine Anderson (who died before Anders Madsson and had three sons and six daughters), then the share going to all of Heine's children would have been 2/5 (again assuming that the only other children were Jan and Kristine), and Mads's share of that would have been 1/6, or 1/15 of the total coming from Anders - which means that Mads probably would have had to buy out his siblings in order to get the 1/2 løp smør and 1/2 hud in Boland. From the 1665 fogden's manntall (https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/35572/26) we know that Jan Andersson Ænes was 20 years older than Mads Heineson, which I guess would be chronologically consistent with either Mads being a nephew of Jan or Mads being married to a younger sister of Jan.

Godt spørsmål. Alle som har skrevet noe om Heine Andersson på Øyre har tatt det for gitt at han var sønn av Anders Madsson på Ænes. Inkludert meg selv. Jeg kan ikke finne noe som beviser at dette er far og sønn. Navnet Heine Andersson og hans oppkalling av Mads og Anders (sønn nr. 1 og 3) samt sammenfall i tid og geografi synes å ha ledet til konklusjonen. Det samme gjelder for så vidt de to andre "sikre" barna etter Anders Madsson, Jan og Kristi. Jan Andersson overtar i tillegg som bruker på Ænes. Når Heine-navnet kopler Heine Andersson til Anders Madsson bygger det på hypotesen om at Anders var gift med en datter av Mogens Heineson. Dette er heller ikke bevist, men er sannsynlig. Da blir også Anders Madsson en sannsynlig far til de nevnte tre "sikre" barna, men ikke bevist. Heine-navnet er ekstremt sjeldent og forekommer praktisk talt ikke i kjente kilder i Hordaland før Heine Jonson og Mogens Heineson (far og sønn) flytter fra Færøyane til Norge og da høyst sannsynlig til Kvinnherad. Det er i dette området navnet dukker opp. Det gjør at oppkalling i dette tilfellet blir mer avgjørende enn ellers.