Help Tracing Norwegian Ancestor(s) + Immigration/Travel to United Kingdom

[Anton Hagelee]

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Endret Lørdag 21:04 av Anton Hagelee

[Ellen Charge]

@Anton Hagelee Thank you for your excellent work so far and for taking the time to help me! I remember noting the Danish link previously and wondering what the context or circumstances for that could be. It's odd that the translation incorrectly listed A. Hansen as Sacharias' father (given his patronymic) is most likely called Simeon. This family, in the very least, seems a little more well-travelled than the other and their location makes me think seafaring would be more prevalent in a family such as these over the Hedmark family who are more inland. Naturally, someone from the Hedmark family must've left Norway for me to be connected to them, but at least the movements of the Finnmark and Troms family might be clearer/better recorded. 

[Anton Hagelee]

16 minutes ago, Ellen Charge said:

It's odd that the translation incorrectly listed A. Hansen as Sacharias' father (given his patronymic) is most likely called Simeon.

 

The record is an engagement record and does not list the fathers of the two participants but rather the two are names of the witnesses. They can be related to the bride and groom  but that is not a requirement. The two witnesses are Absalom Hansen and Hans Kjerland. 

 

trolove                 betroth, engage
trolovelse              betrothment, engagement
                        (This is a public announcement (in church) of betrothal was 
                        a legal requirement. Without it you could not marry. 
                        I think these lasted until late 1800 or even early 1900's.)
trolovet                (see "forlovet")

 

https://otjoerge.wordpress.com/norwegian-american-dictionary/p-t/#T

 

 

From AI 

 

Yes. While the word trolovene specifically translates to "the betrothed ones" (the couple), the historical custom of a trolovelse (betrothal) absolutely required a pair of witnesses (and sometimes more) to be legally valid

 

 

 

Endret Lørdag 21:52 av Anton Hagelee

[Anton Hagelee]

I took the liberty of starting a second thread specifically for the Finnmark family It did manage do get some action out of the Norwegian contingent 

 

 

 

[Ellen Charge]

@Anton Hagelee Thank you for linking the Finnmark thread and sharing your research! The translation in particular is a massive help as I do not speak Norwegian (although have learned some basic things through research like occupations and so forth). I'll take a look at what you've shared there! 🙂

[Anton Hagelee]

55 minutes ago, Ellen Charge said:

I'll take a look at what you've shared there!

 

Unfortunately Ellen I was unable to find a connection between either the Hedmark family or the Finnmark family and England. 

 

[Per.H.Skaug]

Ellen, Anton,

have you been able to identify anyone in Norway who shares the DNA with both the Finnmark and Hedmark links? If so, you may be able o pinpoint the person who went to England. It sounds unlikely (but is not impossible of course) that there would be an NPE with two different Norwegians, so i think it is more likely that the Norwegian who became the ancestor is a relative of both the Finnmark and the Hedmark lines.

[Anton Hagelee]

37 minutes ago, Per.H.Skaug said:

Ellen, Anton,

have you been able to identify anyone in Norway who shares the DNA with both the Finnmark and Hedmark links?

 

Per, thanks for addressing the question from Ellen. I have not been able to find any connection between England and the Hedmark family. So I started a separate thread focused on the Finnmark-Tromsø family. If you have the time it would be great if you would look over that thread. 

 

 

[Ellen Charge]

45 minutes ago, Per.H.Skaug said:

Ellen, Anton,

have you been able to identify anyone in Norway who shares the DNA with both the Finnmark and Hedmark links? If so, you may be able o pinpoint the person who went to England. It sounds unlikely (but is not impossible of course) that there would be an NPE with two different Norwegians, so i think it is more likely that the Norwegian who became the ancestor is a relative of both the Finnmark and the Hedmark lines.

I cannot identify any of my matches who match both sides, they form distinct genetic clusters so it seems to me that they are unrelated. I based this not only on matches in common but on those who triangulate (share the same DNA segment[s]). I thought it seemed unlikely too, but it seems to me that I may have two distinct Norwegian ancestors. Based on how much DNA I share with them and how many matches I have, the Hedmark link seems more recent while the Finnmark one seems a little more distant. 

[Anton Hagelee]

11 minutes ago, Ellen Charge said:

I cannot identify any of my matches who match both sides, they form distinct genetic clusters

 

Ellen, good of you to weigh in on this discussion. What do you think of Berteus Simonsen as a potential candidate for the mystery man from Finnmark. I am hoping that involving more folks ie Mathias and Per will enable us to get a little clearer picture of who might be candidates 

 

It probably complicated things by me starting the second thread but the first was mostly focused on the Hedmark family and I was beginning to get the two families mixed in my head and needed to separate my efforts. 

 

 

Endret 10 minutter siden av Anton Hagelee

[Ellen Charge]

@Anton Hagelee Is Berteus a brother/relative of Sacharias?

[Anton Hagelee]

2 minutes ago, Ellen Charge said:

Is Berteus a brother/relative of Sacharias?

 

Brother, 

 

Four of them, Zacharias (Sacharias), Lars, Søren and Berteus. And I think two sisters 

[Ellen Charge]

@Anton Hagelee What made you hone in on Berteus? Is there any inkling of him leaving Norway?

I thought one useful point of entry might be looking at prisoners of war from the early 1800s as many Norwegians and Danes were captured and taken to England. I did find a couple with names that were in the Hedmark family and matched the ages, but the birthplaces listed were incorrect and so it seemed they weren't the same people. This could be a way by which some Scandinavians ended up in the UK without willfully emigrating.