Frederik Ferdinand Donderdahl geboren (født) 06-07-1828 te Tromsee Noorwegen. (Tromsø). Mors navn Marie Suhr (Seuer)

[Ivar Moe]

Er det noen som har noen tips om hvem og hvorfra han var denne Fredrik Ferdinand Dunderdal/ Dunderdahl/ Donderdall ?

 

Frederik Ferdinand Donderdall geboren 06-07-1828 te Tromsee Noorwegen

Diversen:
Adres: Amsterdam Nieuwendijk 289

 

Gifter seg og får barn i Amsterdam

 

https://archief.amsterdam/indexen/persons?f={"search_s_plaats":{"v":"Tromsee Noorwegen"}}&sort={"order_s_plaats":"asc"}

 

Mvh

Ivar

Endret April 23, 2020 av Ivar Moe

[Ivar Moe]

Da fant jeg vielsen. Her er mora sitt navn registrert - Marie Suhr

 

=

Father of groom

Donderdahl

Mother of groom

Marie Suhr

=

Groom

Fredrik Ferdinand Donderdahl, born in Tromso (Noorwegen), 23 years old

Bride

Dirkje Storckmeijer, born in Amsterdam, 22 years old

=

Father of bride

Marten Johan Philip Storckmeijer

Mother of bride

Charlotta ten Kamp, werkster  by profession

[Inge Nygård]

Dåpen nederst venstre side: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070606660067

[Ivar Moe]

2 minutter siden, Inge Nygård skrev:

Dåpen nederst venstre side: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070606660067

 

Supert Inge. Du er et unikum vedrørende kirkebøker.

 

Står vel at Fredrik var uekte født. Da er kanskje dette mora - her i 1853

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/84/pc00000000207489

[Ivar Moe]

Er det mulig å finne flere opplysninger om far til Fredrik ?

[Grethe Flood]

Faren er vel Kbm Donderdal fra Bodøe. 

 

???

https://xn--bodposten-n8a.no/bodo-byen-som-knapt-var-synlig-i-terrenget/

"Byen som ikke er noen by
Ja i feststunder kunne det kastes glans over stedet Bodø, men i hverdagens grå lys så det nok ganske usselt ut for byen i den første tid etter grunnleggelsen. Da Gustav Peter Blom kom reisende til Bodø i 1827, så det nokså trøstesløst ut for den unge by. «Bodø har kun navnet av by» skriver han «og selv dette respekterer man ikke, for i alminnelighet nevnes kun Hundholmen, det forrige handelsleies navn, og ved Bodø forstås i egnen kun Bodøgård, på hvis grunn byen skulle ligge. Det Trondhjemske Handels Factorie (opprettet i 1803) er opphørt, dets betydelig pakkbod, våningshus og faste eiendommer skulle, da jeg var her, selges, og dets factor, herr Jakhelln har tilkjøpt seg etablisementes hus og eiendommer, hvoriblant den betydelige Bodøgård for 9000 spd. Når untas det engelske handelskompani Dunderdale og Brant, de eneste som dreiver noen utbredt handel, et par handelsmenn, som driver litt innenlands handel og noen håndverkere og arbeisfolk, har Bodø by ingen beboere, og man kan uten overdrivelse her være midt i byen uten å ha bemerket den». (uthevet GF). 

 

???

Finner denne dåpen i Bodø i 1827 - Carl - faren er kjøpmann Charles Dunderdahl:

Nordland fylke, Bodø i Bodø (Salten), Ministerialbok nr. 801A05 (1818-1834), Kronologisk liste 1828, Side 93
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/16642/94

 

Frederik, 1829 - far er kjøpmann Charles Dunderdales

Nordland fylke, Bodø i Bodø (Salten), Ministerialbok nr. 801A05 (1818-1834), Kronologisk liste 1829, Side 106
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/16642/107

 

Begge guttene er født utenfor ekteskap og har samme mor: pige Anna Lovisa Moedin. 

[Grethe Flood]

Nr. 3

Nordland fylke, Bodø i Bodø (Salten), Ministerialbok nr. 801A07 (1845-1863), Konfirmerte 1845, Side 104
Permanent bilde-ID: kb20050502030866
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20050502030866
Permanent bildelenke: http://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20050502030866.jpg
 

 

[Grethe Flood]

???

 

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MXNT-86J

Name: Carlos Dundendal
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1880
Event Place: Chicago, Cook, Illinois, United States
Event Place (Original): Chicago, Cook, Illinois, United States
Gender: Male
Age: 54
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Race (Original): W
Occupation: Shoemaker
Birth Year (Estimated): 1826
Birthplace: Norway
Father's Birthplace: Norway
Mother's Birthplace: Norway
Relationship to Head of Household: Self
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Self
Sheet Letter: D
Sheet Number: 80
Person Number: 0
Volume: 2
Record Number: 14889104

Household	Role	Sex	Age	Birthplace
Carlos Dundendal	Self	M	54	Norway
Betta Dundendal	Wife	F	61	Norway
Louisa Peterson	Niece	F	22	Norway
Anna Moden	Mother	F	72	Norway

 

Endret April 24, 2020 av Grethe Flood

[Ivar Moe]

Takk skal du ha Grethe, dette ser jo unektelig ut som rett familie.

 

Fredrik Ferdinand oppgir bare etternavnet på sin far ved begge vielsene i Nederland, det betyr ofte at han ikke viste farens fornavn(uekte).

 

Men han oppgir Marie Suhr som mor i begge ekteskapene.  Det samsvarer også med dåpen som Inge fant. Mener mor der står som Marie Seuer ?

 

Tenker du da Grethe at han også hadde to uekte sønner i Bodø i tillegg til Fredrik Ferdinand i Trømsø ?

 

Her er andre ekteskapet jeg nettopp fant 

 

Marriage on December 12, 1867 in Den Helder (Netherlands)

Father of groom

Donderdahl

Mother of groom

Maria Suhr

=

Groom

Fredrik Ferdinand Donderdahl, born in Tromsoe (Noorwegen), 39 years old, kleermaker  by profession

Bride

Elisabeth Wilhelmina Pieper, born in Amsterdam, 27 years old

=

Father of bride

Bernardus Pieper

Mother of bride

Guillaumette Horn

Endret April 23, 2020 av Ivar Moe

[Ivar Moe]

Her er familien da med andre kona. 

 

Kan ikke se noen oppkalling heller, men det er ikke sikkert det var så vanlig når en reiste utenlands.

 

https://archief.amsterdam/indexen/persons?ss={"q":"donderdahl"}&page=2

 

Endret April 23, 2020 av Ivar Moe

[Grethe Flood]

Det jeg har funnet, er i alle fall det nærmeste jeg har kommet. At Fredrik Ferdinand bare oppgir etternavnet på faren sin, kan kanskje ha noe med å gjøre at det bare står Kbm Dunderdal ved dåpen hans. 

 

Ser at det står følgende merknad på dåpen: 

 

 

Her er dåpsinnførselen i klokkerboka:

Troms fylke, Tromsø i Tromsø, Klokkerbok nr. 1 (1821-1833), Fødte og døpte 1829, Side 618-619
Permanent bilde-ID: kb20070606660547
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070606660547
Permanent bildelenke: http://urn.digitalarkivet.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20070606660547.jpg
 

Endret April 24, 2020 av Grethe Flood

[Grethe Flood]

Skudd i blinde: 

I 1822 blir det døpt en gutt i Hammerfest - Edvard Christian. Moren heter Maria Suhr - Mad.Jomf. Gutten er født utenfor ekteskap:

https://www.rhd.uit.no/kirkebok/kbliste.aspx?kb=d&RR=138123

 

Hammerfest	Hammerfest sokneprestembete/3	1822	Hamf. Kirke
Fornavn	Kjønn	Dåpsdato	Fødselsdato	Ekte/Uekte
Edvard Christian	m	11.08.1822	16.06.1822	U
Fars Fornavn	Etternavn	Stilling	Bosted	Fødeår/Alder
Ivar	Onsgaard	Ungkarl	Hammerfest
Mors Fornavn	Etternavn	Stilling	Bosted	Fødeår/Alder
Maria	Suhr	Mad. Jomf.	Fuglenes
Faddere
Martinus Buck
Soland Ostgaard
Diderich Valseth Hamerf.
Mad. Lenning
Mad. Mølbach Buch Fuglenes
Jfr. Susanne Suhr Hamerfest
Hjemmedåp
24 Junii af Mad. Johnsen
Merknad
Jp. 636

 

 

 

 

[Ivar Moe]

42 minutter siden, Grethe Flood skrev:

Skudd i blinde: 

I 1822 blir det døpt en gutt i Hammerfest - Edvard Christian. Moren heter Maria Suhr - Mad.Jomf. Gutten er født utenfor ekteskap:

https://www.rhd.uit.no/kirkebok/kbliste.aspx?kb=d&RR=138123

 

Kan godt være en innertier dette Grethe 🙂 

 

Fant dette om Ivar Onsgaard og Marie Suhr i Finnmark Dagblad fra 1971

 

https://www.nb.no/items/d369e0bd090e87a7345c8857a048fe9c?page=7&searchText="iver onsgaard"

[Jacqueline de Vroome]

Hello Ivar,

Here a response from the Netherlands. I don't speak norwegian. I hope you understand English, or that  somebody can translate this.

Frederik Fredinand Donderdahl is my great great grandfather. His son Frederik Ferdinand Donderdahl 8-2-1862  died 13-10-1915 Rotterdam, was the father of my grandmother, Johanna Donderdahl 26-04-1893 Amsterdam died 04-08-1982 Haarlem

What is your relation to Frederik Ferdinand ?

 

Frederik married twice. First with Dirkje Storckmeijer on 30-06-1852 Amsterdam . She was born 31-12-1830 Amsterdam They had 8 children. After Dirkje died( don't know when) he married 12-12-1867 Elisabeth Wilhelmina Pieper in Den Helder. Elisabeth was born 24-04-1840 died 17-02-1908 Amsterdam They had 1 daughter. Frederik died 11-02-1885 Amsterdam 

 

Charles Dunderdahl had 3 illigimate children with 2 women:

Tromso:  Mother Marie Suhr, child Frederik Ferdinand Dunderdahl  06-07-1828

Bodo:  Mother Anna Lovina Moedin 2 Children: 1 Carl Dunderdahl 19-11-1827 ( he is carlos in the Usa mentioned by Grethe)

                                                                                    2 Frederik Ferdinand Dunderdahl 25-08-1829

 

Charles was together with James Brent the founder of The Dunderdale and Brent Trading Company in Nyholmen Bodo from 1826-1829

I assume after the bankrupty Charles went back to the UK. Unfortunately i haven't found other information about him.

If you can find more please let me know.

 

Do you know more about Marie Suhr? I only know her name. It would be nice to know more.

 

With kind regards ,Jacqueline

 

[Ivar Moe]

Hi Jacqueline, welcome to the The National Archives discussion forum under state auspices. Here you will meet the best genealogists in Norway, and free of charge for everyone. 

Most of us write - read English, so it goes perfectly well.

Personally, I have no relationship with your relatives, but try as best I can to register Norwegians, sailors but also others who marry in Holland in the old days.  I also have relatives in Holland (Londo and Heising)

 

I think Grethe  is on the right track. If so  the newspaper article that I refer to will explain most of Suhr's story.

Father:

Niels Christopher Suhr from Copenhagen. Born 1768.  He became a battalion surgeon in Trondheim, Norway, 01.10.1790.  District surgeon for Finnmark (As far north as you can get in Norway) in 1792 .

His wife Engel Sophie Stenberg

 

Its a lot more to translate, i will help you later if you need. 

 

Children:

 

PS

Forum rules.  First name and last name. Display name must be your full name

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/content/147/register-a-user-in-the-the-national-archives-

 

I think maybe we should make a new topic about your relatives in Norway. For example Marie Suhr from Tromsø etc.

You can do, or i can do if you like

 

Brg

Ivar

Endret Juli 4, 2020 av Ivar Moe

[Ivar Moe]

The reason that  I am not quite  sure that we have found the  right  Marie s that in the city of Bergen there is a Marie Caroline Suhr on "forced labor" in 1853, also she from Tromsø. Could it be the same lady or ....

 

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/84/pc00000000207489

 

Mvh

Ivar

Endret Juli 4, 2020 av Ivar Moe

[Jacqueline de Vroome]

Hello Ivar

 

Thank you for your response. I will try to translate the newspaper with google translate.

I had also find Marie Caroline Suhr in "forced labor" in Bergen. 

Seen her age it could be her, but i am also not sure. 

Maybe a new topic might bring new information. If you can do that , that would be nice. 

Because of the norwegian language i am afraid i choose something wrong. Google translate is handy, but also sometimes a bit confusing,

 

With kind regards Jacqueline

 

 

 

[Ivar Moe]

Hi Jacqueline

I'm going to try to create a new topic about Marie later today. A little busy this weekend.

The indications that Marie is the daughter of surgeon Niels Christopher Suhr and Engel Sophie Steenberg are strong, but we are finally missing the evidence.

Niels Christopher's parents were Jens Suhr and Maren Svink (presumably to be found in Copenhagen)

https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid796471

 

Engel Sophie Steenberg was a priest daughter from Nykøping in Denmark.

https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid366306

 

Brg

Ivar

Endret Juli 5, 2020 av Ivar Moe

[Jacqueline de Vroome]

Hi Ivar

 

Thank You very much. Please take your time., whenever it suits you.

I am already happy with these two names. In the Netherlands the first born son was most of the time named after his grandfathers.  Because there is no grandfather of Charles Dunderdale, i only surched for Ferdinand Suhr. But now i can surch on these names.

 

 

With kind regards Jacqueline

 

 

[Ivar Moe]

Hello again.

I found this Danish genealogy page that deals with Engel Sophie's family.

 

http://www.olhus.dk/getperson.php?personID=I86250&tree=tree1

[Jacqueline de Vroome]

Hi Ivar,

 

Engel Sophie came from a very big family!

Thanks!,

Jacqueline

 

 

[Jacqueline de Vroome]

Hello Ivar,

 

I want to say something about Charles Dunderdale, so it is better to do that on this page.

Although i said i had no information about him, i mend no information that proves that i had find the wright Charles.

I had found a Charles Dunderdale baptitste 27-03-1797 St Peter church Leeds. His father was Henry Dunderdale, (3-1-1770 died 1-11-1840.) Henry was probably married to Catherine Potter ( died 1851). 

Charles was a merchant and a commission agent. He died 1865 in Holbeck, Uk He was not married and had no children. 

His father Henry traded international . The brothers of Henry, David and William Thompson Dunderdale were also international traders.So the Dunderdale family were abroad minded.

David Dunderdale is from the Dunderdale Pottery and he traded with Spain and Portugal.

Now i know Marie Suhr was born 1791, this Charles would fit. And because of his profession and the fact that the Dunderdale Family  traded international it could fit that this  Charles went to Norway.

I have no prove, but i am now more convinced that this is the Charles to ad as father to Frederick Ferdinand Dunderdahl.

 

With kind regards Jacqueline

 

[Jacqueline de Vroome]

Hello Ivar,

 

Can you help me to read the baptism of Carl en Frederik with mother Anna Lovisa Moedin? 

I think there are godparents written but the names (and where they are from?) are difficult to read. And behind the name of Anna does it say where she is from?

 

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/16642/94

 

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/16642/107

 

With kind regards Jacqueline

[Ivar Moe]

På 11.7.2020 den 12.01, Jacqueline de Vroome skrev:

I had found a Charles Dunderdale baptitste 27-03-1797 St Peter church Leeds. His father was Henry Dunderdale, (3-1-1770 died 1-11-1840.) Henry was probably married to Catherine Potter ( died 1851). 

Charles was a merchant and a commission agent. He died 1865 in Holbeck, Uk He was not married and had no children. 

His father Henry traded international . The brothers of Henry, David and William Thompson Dunderdale were also international traders.So the Dunderdale family were abroad minded.

David Dunderdale is from the Dunderdale Pottery and he traded with Spain and Portugal.

Now i know Marie Suhr was born 1791, this Charles would fit. And because of his profession and the fact that the Dunderdale Family  traded international it could fit that this  Charles went to Norway.

I have no prove, but i am now more convinced that this is the Charles to ad as father to Frederick Ferdinand Dunderdahl.

 

Hi

I found a travelogue from the "northern counties" written by Gustav Blom. He meets the two Englishmen Dunderdale and Brandt in Bodø. Dunderdale then tells that he has previously lived in Germany, France and Italy. Maybe there are some registrations to be found in those countries as well. Children etc
Otherwise, it seems very likely that you have found the correct family in England.

 

Ivar

[Bjarne Rosenstrøm]

44 minutter siden, Ivar Moe skrev:

Hi

I found a travelogue from the "northern counties" written by Gustav Blom. He meets the two Englishmen Dunderdale and Brandt in Bodø. Dunderdale then tells that he has previously lived in Germany, France and Italy. Maybe there are some registrations to be found in those countries as well. Children etc
Otherwise, it seems very likely that you have found the correct family in England.

 

https://www.nb.no/search?q=gustav blom&mediatype=bøker&name=gustav blom&fromDate=18320101&toDate=18321231

 

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